I had to go over to the Telegraph to find the story about
Fergie having to speak to the BBC (and even then I had to do a google search - brilliant site layout there), I don't like doing it and yet again I remember why as I click on the sole article that piqued my interest
It was a harmless (but pointless)
debate about Brazil exposing England
Mike Norrish happily admits that a friendly against Brazil featuring two players out of our probable first-team hardly means anything, but then somehow it justifies analysis of England's hopes, talk about hype for the sake of hype
But this really narked me:
But France, the best team of the last 10 years, beat [England] 1-0
What.the.f***
That'd be France, who are currently ranked ninth and had to enter the play-offs from a group that featured Serbia as their only real threat
The same France that came last in their group at Euro 2008 and scored a sum total of one goal
France have at one point been the top ranked side in the world - between May 2001 and May 2002, right after their victory in Euro 2000
But then what happened after May 2002? That's right, a goalless exit from the World Cup
Meanwhile Brazil, currently ranked at number one, have spent about seven of the last ten years at that position, including a five year consecutive stint after 'Les Bleus'
I am of course ignoring the more successful Euro 2004 and 2006 World Cup, in which they reached the quarter finals and final respectively
Ignoring the petulant facts that they lost to Greece in 2004, and only got past Portugal with a dodgy penalty in the semis in 2006, and indeed only won in 2000 thanks to the short-lived golden goal I will grant that they were pretty decent results
Euro 2000: Champions
2002: round 1: bottom (automatic qualification btw)
Euro 2004: QF
2006: final
2008: round 1: bottom
2010: play-off qualification
three decent performances out of five
Here's
England:
Euro 2000: round 1: 3rd spot
2002: QF
Euro 2004: QF
2006: QF
2008:
oops...
2010: Top spot in qualification
3 out of five...
With the sole exception of Euro 2000, which was
nine and a half years ago, do you see anything that puts France as distinctly better than England, and regarded as the best side in the world for the past ten years?
Not really, on rank they do shade us over the years, and they got to one final and did actually qualify for 2008 - but on balance their poor performances in 2002 and 2008 (and indeed, 2009) match up quite well against our string of quarter finals, and no pundit worth their salt would regard France as a particularly good side right now - they have some good (understatement) players with Anelka and Henry, but it's well known the team is in a right state under Domenech and they struggle for players defensively
But let's compare ten years of
Brazil
After finishing second to France in 98 what happened?
2001 Copa America: QF
2002 WC:
Champions
2004 Copa America:
Champions
2006 WC: QF (to France, ironically)
2007: Copa America:
Champions
2010: qualification (as winners)
Ahem...no first round, goalless exits for them -
five out of five
I admit that the Copa America is somewhat less competitive than the European championship, but what else can I go on? It's what the ranks use, and their world cup record is clearly better - as they actually
won one in the past decade
Perhaps Norrish is foolishly thinking that France 98 was in the past decade?
Well it wasn't, that team is gone (it was mostly gone by 2006) throughout almost the whole decade of the 'noughties' the sole significant achievement has been the appearance in the 2006 final
Let's look at
Germany
2000: round 1 (bottom, below England...)
2002: final
2004: round 1...
2006: SF
2008: SF
2010: Qualified
three out of five
So, two poor showings - but across the past five years you can't say France have done better - any idea that they've been the best side across ten years is solely down to their victory all the way back in 2000, it's basically an average weighed down by a tournament that we've staged twice since
I am no fan of
Italy, so:
2000: final
2002: round 2
2004: round 1 (on goal difference)
2006: Champions
2008: QF
2010: qualification
three out of five
I would dare say that Italy, on pure results alone, have done slightly better than France in the last ten years - two finals, one win (equal), only one first round exit, and a quarter-final, and a straightforward qualification this year - if you asked me about five years ago then yes, I'd say France have been a force for the past decade - it would include Euro 96, 98 and 2000 (this being known as their '
golden era'), but that is now ancient history
Spain, while having a decidedly dodgy patch in the middle also strung together a better run of results than France, with two quarter-finals, a first round and then second round exit, and of course, are now reigning European champions (
three out of five)
Portugal, while never winning a trophy, have only really failed once in all these tournaments - 2002 was the only year where they haven't been in the top 8 (and they only failed to get to the semis once) and even in 2000 they were in the semis - if you want consistency over the past ten years then Portugal are just behind Brazil (
four out of five)
So, do you see anything distinguishing them as any better than the top teams?
Here's my ranks:
Brazil - five consecutive decent showings, one World cup (+ countless others), more recent than France
Italy - three decent showings, one World cup, more recent than France
Spain - three decent showings, one European championship, more recent than France
Portugal - four decent showings, no trophies, but two semis and a final
France - three decent showings, one European championship, at the oldest tournament eligible
Germany - three decent showings, two semis and a final
England - three decent showings, all quarter finals
Netherlands - three decent showings, all regional however
So please, Mike Norrish - tell me what you base the assertion that the eighth favourite team to win the cup (@20/1) have been the best team of the last ten years on? I am intrigued
(the article is definitely 2009, not 2005...right?)
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